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For those who have Intel-based Macs...Source: microsoft.public.mac.virtualpc Sent: 05/20/2008 From: "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> Message:.... I want to treat you all with an insight to what is possible (because I
have this configuration running right now as I write this) if you want to
install Windows on the Mac via Boot Camp, but want to preserve your former
Virtual PC installation within the new Windows environment on our Mac.
This was exactly my scenario: I have Windows Vista Business that I want to
run under Boot Camp on my MacBook Pro, but I have stuff I want to migrate
from Windows XP running under a virtual machine on an old PowerPC-based Mac
(my PowerBook G4, incidentally) running Virtual PC.
And according to the EULA that comes with Virtual PC, I actually am entitled
to do this legally under the new arrangement because the copy of Windows
that ran under the old Virtual PC installation will continue to run in the
same way under the new installation... so you can forget worrying about any
legalities when you do this, except for two issues:
* you promise to forfeit your Virtual PC installation on the PowerPC-based
Mac, and the installation of Windows within, and
* you may have to re-authenticate Windows when you migrate your installation
on your new Intel-based Mac.
[Important: for the above to be true, you must have a Virtual PC product
with a version of Windows that you actually intend to use on the upgraded
system, or you need a retail product of Windows, which comes with its own
EULA and installation disks. Using a product that did not come with your
licensed copy of Virtual PC or Windows retail is a voilation of the Windows
and/or Virtual PC and/or Office v.Mac Professional EULA.]
If Windows came with your Virtual PC:Mac or Office v.Mac Professional
product, then you will have no problems running under the new environment,
either technically or legally.
So what is the new environment that I am so excited about? Well, I simply
came to the realisation that even though I can boot Windows on my Mac via
Boot Camp, I can also augment this environment with an installation of
Virtual PC 2007 SP1 for Windows, of which can be obtained for free from:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx
to run older installations of Windows on my Intel-based Macintosh! So now I
have a way to run the former virtual machine on a faster environment, in a
completely compatible manner that does not involve translating virtual
machines from one product to another.
The slightly tricky part is copying the hard disk image(s) to the Windows
Vista boot partition. This mailout shows how to prepare your disk images so
that Virtual PC 2007 can boot them.
Firstly, you need an Intel-based Mac with Leopard installed (or Tiger, if
you have dared to keep a beta of Boot Camp running on your system!), and you
need to install a host Windows installation. I have used Windows Vista
Business on my setup-but you can also use Windows XP SP2, since you need to
have a supported version of Windows available for Boot Camp to boot into.
After you have Vista or XP installed on the Boot Camp partition, download
Virtual PC 2007 and install that into your Windows environment. After you
have that up and running, don't prepare a virtual machine for it just yet...
you'll want to get your old virtual machine into the Windows system first.
To do that, you can:
* prepare the host Windows XP or Vista system to enable file sharing, so
that your PowerPC-based Mac can mount its SMB file share.
* copy your virtual machine <name>.vpc7 to the host Windows installation on
your Intel-based Mac via SMB networking.
There are other ways you could copy the virtual machine over... but I chose
what I think is the quickest and cheapest solution.
Then, in Virtual PC 2007, make a new virtual machine. You need to do this
because Virtual PC for Mac and Virtual PC 2007 have different filing
conventions for representing your virtual machine-dropping in the Mac's
virtual machine for Virtual PC 2007 to pick up will not work, because
Virtual PC 2007 cannot identify Virtual PC's virtual machines.
When you make your
--
-- tonza.
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Sent: 05/20/2008 From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> Message:Virtual PC 2007 for Intel machines does not entitle you to transfer a VPC 6
or 7 bundled copy of Windows to an Intel machine. You are always free to
transfer the license to a retail copy of Windows, but not a bundled one.
There is nothing on the website you linked that addresses VPC6 or 7 bundled
Windows in any way. The bundled Windows license is restricted to use with
the copy of VPC it comes with. The licenses for VPC for PPC Macs is not
related to VPC 2007 at all.
"Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:4832c4ba$0$1022$(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > ... I want to treat you all with an insight to what is possible (because I
> have this configuration running right now as I write this) if you want to
> install Windows on the Mac via Boot Camp, but want to preserve your former
> Virtual PC installation within the new Windows environment on our Mac.
>
> This was exactly my scenario: I have Windows Vista Business that I want to
> run under Boot Camp on my MacBook Pro, but I have stuff I want to migrate
> from Windows XP running under a virtual machine on an old PowerPC-based
> Mac (my PowerBook G4, incidentally) running Virtual PC.
>
> And according to the EULA that comes with Virtual PC, I actually am
> entitled to do this legally under the new arrangement because the copy of
> Windows that ran under the old Virtual PC installation will continue to
> run in the same way under the new installation... so you can forget
> worrying about any legalities when you do this, except for two issues:
>
> * you promise to forfeit your Virtual PC installation on the PowerPC-based
> Mac, and the installation of Windows within, and
> * you may have to re-authenticate Windows when you migrate your
> installation on your new Intel-based Mac.
>
> [Important: for the above to be true, you must have a Virtual PC product
> with a version of Windows that you actually intend to use on the upgraded
> system, or you need a retail product of Windows, which comes with its own
> EULA and installation disks. Using a product that did not come with your
> licensed copy of Virtual PC or Windows retail is a voilation of the
> Windows and/or Virtual PC and/or Office v.Mac Professional EULA.]
>
> If Windows came with your Virtual PC:Mac or Office v.Mac Professional
> product, then you will have no problems running under the new environment,
> either technically or legally.
>
> So what is the new environment that I am so excited about? Well, I simply
> came to the realisation that even though I can boot Windows on my Mac via
> Boot Camp, I can also augment this environment with an installation of
> Virtual PC 2007 SP1 for Windows, of which can be obtained for free from:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx
>
> to run older installations of Windows on my Intel-based Macintosh! So now
> I have a way to run the former virtual machine on a faster environment, in
> a completely compatible manner that does not involve translating virtual
> machines from one product to another.
>
> The slightly tricky part is copying the hard disk image(s) to the Windows
> Vista boot partition. This mailout shows how to prepare your disk images
> so that Virtual PC 2007 can boot them.
>
> Firstly, you need an Intel-based Mac with Leopard installed (or Tiger, if
> you have dared to keep a beta of Boot Camp running on your system!), and
> you need to install a host Windows installation. I have used Windows
> Vista Business on my setup-but you can also use Windows XP SP2, since you
> need to have a supported version of Windows available for Boot Camp to
> boot into.
>
> After you have Vista or XP installed on the Boot Camp partition, download
> Virtual PC 2007 and install that into your Windows environment. After you
> have that up and running, don't prepare a virtual machine for it just
> yet... you'll want to get your old virtual machine into the Windows system
> first.
>
> To do that, you can:
>
> * prepare the host Windows XP or Vista system to enable file sharing, so
> that your PowerPC-based Mac can mount its SMB file share.
>
> * copy your virtual machine <name>.vpc7 to the host Windows installation
> on your Intel-based Mac via SMB networking.
>
> There are other ways you could copy the virtual machine over... but I
> chose what I think is the quickest and cheapest solution.
>
> Then, in Virtual PC 2007, make a new virtual machine. You need to do this
> because Virtual PC for Mac and Virtual PC 2007 have different filing
> conventions for representing your virtual machine-dropping in the Mac's
> virtual machine for Virtual PC 2007 to pick up will not work, because
> Virtual PC 2007 cannot identify Virtual PC's virtual machines.
>
> When you make your
>
>
> --
> -- tonza.
>
>
Sent: 05/20/2008 From: Steve Jain <(email address - cut out)> Message:On Wed, 21 May 2008 08:57:29 +1200, Helpful Harry
<(email address - cut out)> wrote:
But he is using it with Virtual PC, Virtual PC 2007 for Windows.
This might work, after all, it's not too different than having
VPC5+Windows 2000, then upgrading that bundle to VPC6, then VPC7. MS
allowed the user to upgrade to a different "platform" there. Here
you're just upgrading from VPC7 to VPC2007.
This is a good question for MS Licensing...although you'll probably
get a different answer from every licensing rep you ask.
--
Cheers,
Steve Jain, Virtual Machine MVP
http://vpc.essjae.com/
I do not work for Microsoft.
Show quoted text >In article <4832c4ba$0$1022$(email address - cut out)>, "Tony
>Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>
>> [Important: for the above to be true, you must have a Virtual PC product
>> with a version of Windows that you actually intend to use on the upgraded
>> system, or you need a retail product of Windows, which comes with its own
>> EULA and installation disks. Using a product that did not come with your
>> licensed copy of Virtual PC or Windows retail is a voilation of the Windows
>> and/or Virtual PC and/or Office v.Mac Professional EULA.]
>>
>> If Windows came with your Virtual PC:Mac or Office v.Mac Professional
>> product, then you will have no problems running under the new environment,
>> either technically or legally.
>>
><snip>
>
>That's probably a typo.
>
>The copy of Windows that comes with Virtual PC is ONLY for use with
>Virtual PC, as you stated in the paragraph before. It cannot legally be
>transferred by any means to any other product or system.
Sent: 05/21/2008 From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)> Message:In article <4832c4ba$0$1022$(email address - cut out)>, "Tony
Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
<snip>
<snip>
That's probably a typo.
The copy of Windows that comes with Virtual PC is ONLY for use with
Virtual PC, as you stated in the paragraph before. It cannot legally be
transferred by any means to any other product or system.
Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
Show quoted text >
> [Important: for the above to be true, you must have a Virtual PC product
> with a version of Windows that you actually intend to use on the upgraded
> system, or you need a retail product of Windows, which comes with its own
> EULA and installation disks. Using a product that did not come with your
> licensed copy of Virtual PC or Windows retail is a voilation of the Windows
> and/or Virtual PC and/or Office v.Mac Professional EULA.]
>
> If Windows came with your Virtual PC:Mac or Office v.Mac Professional
> product, then you will have no problems running under the new environment,
> either technically or legally.
>
Sent: 05/21/2008 From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> Message:You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows this
discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even complete. A
number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by design to
prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of the
bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its license.
"Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:48343747$0$13948$(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text >A couple more notes... just to wrap things up:
>
> On page 35 of the Virtual PC for Mac Getting Started guide, under Step 2,
> Create a Virtual Machine, appears this interesting set of paragraphs that
> say:
>
> "Configure the Windows Operating System.
>
> Whether you installed your own operating system or the Windows operating
> system included on the Virtual PC 7 Installation CD, you need to configure
> or finish configuring the Windows operating system."
>
> and:
>
> "Product Key Information for Windows.
>
> You already provided the product key for Virtual PC 7. Because the
> Windows
> operating system is a separate Microsoft product, you need to provide the
> product key for the Windows operating system, as well."
>
> Both this evidence, and the absence of any OEM licensing terms and
> additional product keys in the product package that I have purchased from
> Microsoft, the Windows operating system that comes with Virtual PC for Mac
> in Office:Mac 2004 Professional edition is not bound in any way to Virtual
> PC for Mac, so that means, that what I am doing with my installation of
> Windows XP Professional is entirely legal and has not void the license
> presented by the Windows XP Professional installer.
>
> I think this solidifies my statements like cooled mantle. Just because
> Windows in Virtual PC for Mac is not packaged to conveniently be installed
> in other environments, doesn't mean it is not licensed to.
>
> Disclaimer: you should always check your packaging material for any
> restrictive licensing terms that may have come with your software! Ensure
> that any and all product documentation, whether in print or in electronic
> form, does not deny you your privileges to use the software in the manner
> I
> have set out in this thread. But as I have demonstrated, it is possible
> to
> run your old virtual machine on newer Macintosh hardware and be licensed
> to
> do so, because no such restrictions are in place according to the product
> documentation.
>
> Kind regards.
>
>
> --tonza
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.virtualpc
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:13 AM
> Subject: Re: For those who have Intel-based Macs...
>
> <abridged>
>
>
Sent: 05/21/2008 From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> Message:I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for the most
part they remember.
"Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows this
>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even complete.
>> A
>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by design
>> to
>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of the
>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
>> license.
>
> You're wasting your time.
>
> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even know
> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than what
> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
Sent: 05/21/2008 From: "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> Message:I have some comments to make regarding what Colin said here, because I
disagree with him entirely:
"Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
Given the license documentation I have received with Office:Mac 2004
Professional, both in print, and on the supplied CDs, I am licensed to use
Windows XP in however manner the accompanying literature has described, so
long as I have retained my original CD set and continue to have a valid and
authentic print of a Windows XP Pro Product Key for it (as it appears on the
CD sleeve of the original media). As long as I have the CD sleeve and the
disks, I have a valid Windows XP Pro license. Since there is no OEM serial
number and Terms of Use that has accompanied the media, I am licensed to use
Windows XP as if I have the retail package of the product, because for all
intents and purposes, the licensing described upon installation of Windows
XP spells out my obligations, rights and privileges to using the software,
which is no different to what is produced with the retail version of Windows
XP Professional..
The Windows XP Professional document (a PDF) that appears on the CD (disk 1)
says to:
"5. Review the license agreement and, if you agree, accept it." (Install
Windows XP, page 3, step 5).
In the Read-Me file on the Virtual PC for Mac installation CD (disk 1), the
only reference to licensing relates to installation:
"Note: if you want to install your own licensed copy of a PC operating
system but you don't have a bootable CD-ROM, you must make a disk copy or
Virtual PC floppy disk image of the boot floppy disk that came with the
operating system."
and this is indeed nothing more than help on how to install your presumed
licensed copy of your operating system.
Upon installing Windows XP Professional on my virtual machine, the license
states:
"1. GRANT OF LICENSE
1.1. Installation and use. You may install, use, access, display and run
one copy of the Software on a single computer, such as a workstation,
terminal or other device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not be
used by more than two (2) processors at any one time on any single
Workstation Computer."
By any stretch of the imagination, "other device" includes a virtual
machine, since it is the executor of the software.
Since I have merely moved the virtual machine's disk image from one physical
machine to another, and remain to have the same product key as the original
installation, I am licensed to use Windows XP on that same installation,
despite the fact that I am using a different virtual machine hosting
application (Virtual PC 2007 running on Windows) to run it.
The license only binds a Windows XP Professional installation identified
with one product key to one user, for a single-user retail version of the
product. Henceforth, there is absolutely no reason why the license would be
violated in running Windows XP Professional on another platform (in this
case, an Intel-based Mac running Windows XP or Vista as a host OS under
Virtual PC 2007 using the *same system image* as the one the guest Windows
XP system was installed on).
That's why I added that you must:
-- forfeit the use of any other installation of your Windows XP
Professional system, and
-- have the original set of CDs and product keys from your original
product purchase
to have a valid license to use the software. And you can't use Virtual PC
2007 to install Windows off the CDs that came with Virtual PC for Mac-you
need to install Windows on a virtual machine hosted by Virtual PC for Mac
first.
And I have also checked the license for Virtual PC 2007... under the same
provisions for using a separately licensed Windows installation on Virtual
PC for Mac, you can also use a separately licensed Windows installation on
Virtual PC 2007. There is nothing in the product licensing for Virtual PC
2007 that says that you can only use the version of Windows provided with
that product, because, frankly, you can obtain Virtual PC 2007 without any
accompanying Windows product, and the license to Virtual PC 2007 allows for
that.
Hope this clarifies your understanding of Windows licensing wrt. Virtual PC
for Mac in this instance.
Show quoted text > Virtual PC 2007 for Intel machines does not entitle you to transfer a VPC
> 6 or 7 bundled copy of Windows to an Intel machine. You are always free
> to transfer the license to a retail copy of Windows, but not a bundled
> one. There is nothing on the website you linked that addresses VPC6 or 7
> bundled Windows in any way. The bundled Windows license is restricted to
> use with the copy of VPC it comes with. The licenses for VPC for PPC Macs
> is not related to VPC 2007 at all.
> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:4832c4ba$0$1022$(email address - cut out)...
>> ... I want to treat you all with an insight to what is possible (because
>> I have this configuration running right now as I write this) if you want
>> to install Windows on the Mac via Boot Camp, but want to preserve your
>> former Virtual PC installation within the new Windows environment on our
>> Mac.
>>
>> This was exactly my scenario: I have Windows Vista Business that I want
>> to run under Boot Camp on my MacBook Pro, but I have stuff I want to
>> migrate from Windows XP running under a virtual machine on an old
>> PowerPC-based Mac (my PowerBook G4, incidentally) running Virtual PC.
>>
>> And according to the EULA that comes with Virtual PC, I actually am
>> entitled to do this legally under the new arrangement because the copy of
>> Windows that ran under the old Virtual PC installation will continue to
>> run in the same way under the new installation... so you can forget
>> worrying about any legalities when you do this, except for two issues:
>>
>> * you promise to forfeit your Virtual PC installation on the
>> PowerPC-based Mac, and the installation of Windows within, and
>> * you may have to re-authenticate Windows when you migrate your
>> installation on your new Intel-based Mac.
>>
>> [Important: for the above to be true, you must have a Virtual PC product
>> with a version of Windows that you actually intend to use on the upgraded
>> system, or you need a retail product of Windows, which comes with its own
>> EULA and installation disks. Using a product that did not come with your
>> licensed copy of Virtual PC or Windows retail is a voilation of the
>> Windows and/or Virtual PC and/or Office v.Mac Professional EULA.]
>>
>> If Windows came with your Virtual PC:Mac or Office v.Mac Professional
>> product, then you will have no problems running under the new
>> environment, either technically or legally.
>>
>> So what is the new environment that I am so excited about? Well, I
>> simply came to the realisation that even though I can boot Windows on my
>> Mac via Boot Camp, I can also augment this environment with an
>> installation of Virtual PC 2007 SP1 for Windows, of which can be obtained
>> for free from:
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx
>>
>> to run older installations of Windows on my Intel-based Macintosh! So
>> now I have a way to run the former virtual machine on a faster
>> environment, in a completely compatible manner that does not involve
>> translating virtual machines from one product to another.
>>
>> The slightly tricky part is copying the hard disk image(s) to the Windows
>> Vista boot partition. This mailout shows how to prepare your disk images
>> so that Virtual PC 2007 can boot them.
>>
>> Firstly, you need an Intel-based Mac with Leopard installed (or Tiger, if
>> you have dared to keep a beta of Boot Camp running on your system!), and
>> you need to install a host Windows installation. I have used Windows
>> Vista Business on my setup-but you can also use Windows XP SP2, since you
>> need to have a supported version of Windows available for Boot Camp to
>> boot into.
>>
>> After you have Vista or XP installed on the Boot Camp partition, download
>> Virtual PC 2007 and install that into your Windows environment. After
>> you have that up and running, don't prepare a virtual machine for it just
>> yet... you'll want to get your old virtual machine into the Windows
>> system first.
>>
>> To do that, you can:
>>
>> * prepare the host Windows XP or Vista system to enable file sharing, so
>> that your PowerPC-based Mac can mount its SMB file share.
>>
>> * copy your virtual machine <name>.vpc7 to the host Windows installation
>> on your Intel-based Mac via SMB networking.
>>
>> There are other ways you could copy the virtual machine over... but I
>> chose what I think is the quickest and cheapest solution.
>>
>> Then, in Virtual PC 2007, make a new virtual machine. You need to do
>> this because Virtual PC for Mac and Virtual PC 2007 have different filing
>> conventions for representing your virtual machine-dropping in the Mac's
>> virtual machine for Virtual PC 2007 to pick up will not work, because
>> Virtual PC 2007 cannot identify Virtual PC's virtual machines.
>>
>> When you make your
>>
>>
>> --
>> -- tonza.
>>
>>
>
Sent: 05/22/2008 From: "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> Message:A couple more notes... just to wrap things up:
On page 35 of the Virtual PC for Mac Getting Started guide, under Step 2,
Create a Virtual Machine, appears this interesting set of paragraphs that
say:
"Configure the Windows Operating System.
Whether you installed your own operating system or the Windows operating
system included on the Virtual PC 7 Installation CD, you need to configure
or finish configuring the Windows operating system."
and:
"Product Key Information for Windows.
You already provided the product key for Virtual PC 7. Because the Windows
operating system is a separate Microsoft product, you need to provide the
product key for the Windows operating system, as well."
Both this evidence, and the absence of any OEM licensing terms and
additional product keys in the product package that I have purchased from
Microsoft, the Windows operating system that comes with Virtual PC for Mac
in Office:Mac 2004 Professional edition is not bound in any way to Virtual
PC for Mac, so that means, that what I am doing with my installation of
Windows XP Professional is entirely legal and has not void the license
presented by the Windows XP Professional installer.
I think this solidifies my statements like cooled mantle. Just because
Windows in Virtual PC for Mac is not packaged to conveniently be installed
in other environments, doesn't mean it is not licensed to.
Disclaimer: you should always check your packaging material for any
restrictive licensing terms that may have come with your software! Ensure
that any and all product documentation, whether in print or in electronic
form, does not deny you your privileges to use the software in the manner I
have set out in this thread. But as I have demonstrated, it is possible to
run your old virtual machine on newer Macintosh hardware and be licensed to
do so, because no such restrictions are in place according to the product
documentation.
Kind regards.
--tonza
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.virtualpc
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: For those who have Intel-based Macs...
<abridged>
Sent: 05/22/2008 From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> Message:From the EULA for VPC for Mac:
"Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, and run one
(1) copy of the
Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal, or other
device
("Workstation Computer") on which you have also installed (and which is
compatible
with and capable of directly executing) any version of the software product
distributed
by Microsoft Corporation and known as Virtual PC for Mac ("VPC Mac"), solely
for use
as a "guest" operating system running in conjunction with VPC Mac."
Notice the "running in conjunction with VPC Mac". VPC 2007 is not VPC Mac.
"Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:48355459$0$30466$(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
>
> What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or reference
> that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional prepared by
> Virtual PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC, I'll stop using the
> product.
>
> I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my resources at
> this end.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> --tonza
>
>
> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
>> OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation or
>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional within
>> Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested from where
>> you find this information.
>>
>> Thanks, and kind regards,
>>
>> --tonza
>>
>>
>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for the
>>>most part they remember.
>>>
>>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
>>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows
>>>>> this
>>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
>>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even
>>>>> complete. A
>>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by
>>>>> design to
>>>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of
>>>>> the
>>>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
>>>>> license.
>>>>
>>>> You're wasting your time.
>>>>
>>>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even know
>>>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>>>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>>>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than what
>>>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>>>
>>>> Helpful Harry
>>>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships
>>>> ;o)
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Sent: 05/22/2008 From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)> Message:In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
You're wasting your time.
Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even know
there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than what
it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
Show quoted text > You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows this
> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even complete. A
> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by design to
> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of the
> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its license.
Sent: 05/22/2008 From: "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> Message:And the license that comes with Windows XP Professional that is shipped with
Virtual PC 7 for Mac Professional Edition that is shipped in Office:Mac 2004
Professional says exactly what the retail version of Windows XP Professional
states in its installation procedures. No more, no less.
Furthermore, no other documentation comes with Virtual PC 7 for Mac
Professional Edition that tells me otherwise about my Windows XP
Professional license. So there is nothing more for me to abide by. Period.
Like I said before, just because Windows XP Professional has been packaged
in a way that is not convenient for anything other than for use with Virtual
PC... doesn't mean that it isn't licensed to run elsewhere. However,
granted, the installation package and procedure is adequate enough on the
Windows XP Professional distribution that comes with Virtual PC for Mac so
that it can also run on Virtual PC 2007 for Windows, and that's fine by me.
Furthermore, the driver set that comes with Windows XP Professional is what
comes in the retail package-what doesn't come with the retail package of
Windows XP Professional is what comes in the VMAdditions.iso that comes with
Virtual PC. VMAdditions.iso contains the software required for Windows XP
Professional to run effectively under the VM's environment... not Windows XP
Professional.
Unless users have additional licensing restrictions in the form of a written
license agreement-electronic, or in print-that came with their Virtual PC
package, I see absolutely no reason why others cannot use their Windows XP
Professional in Virtual PC 2007 for Windows, particularly since the software
distribution that users have received is enough to provide a useful system
to them.
If you don't want to take my recommendations, that's fine. But don't tell
people what they can't do just because your interpretations of the Windows
XP Professional license is different to what is actually supplied with the
Office:Mac 2004 Professional product.
I've done my bit... I'll leave the rest up to you. There's no point in me
debating something you're not prepared to listen to.
Kind regards,
-- tonza
"Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows this
> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even complete. A
> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by design
> to prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of
> the bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
> license.
>
> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:48343747$0$13948$(email address - cut out)...
>>A couple more notes... just to wrap things up:
>>
>> On page 35 of the Virtual PC for Mac Getting Started guide, under Step 2,
>> Create a Virtual Machine, appears this interesting set of paragraphs that
>> say:
>>
>> "Configure the Windows Operating System.
>>
>> Whether you installed your own operating system or the Windows operating
>> system included on the Virtual PC 7 Installation CD, you need to
>> configure
>> or finish configuring the Windows operating system."
>>
>> and:
>>
>> "Product Key Information for Windows.
>>
>> You already provided the product key for Virtual PC 7. Because the
>> Windows
>> operating system is a separate Microsoft product, you need to provide the
>> product key for the Windows operating system, as well."
>>
>> Both this evidence, and the absence of any OEM licensing terms and
>> additional product keys in the product package that I have purchased from
>> Microsoft, the Windows operating system that comes with Virtual PC for
>> Mac
>> in Office:Mac 2004 Professional edition is not bound in any way to
>> Virtual
>> PC for Mac, so that means, that what I am doing with my installation of
>> Windows XP Professional is entirely legal and has not void the license
>> presented by the Windows XP Professional installer.
>>
>> I think this solidifies my statements like cooled mantle. Just because
>> Windows in Virtual PC for Mac is not packaged to conveniently be
>> installed
>> in other environments, doesn't mean it is not licensed to.
>>
>> Disclaimer: you should always check your packaging material for any
>> restrictive licensing terms that may have come with your software!
>> Ensure
>> that any and all product documentation, whether in print or in electronic
>> form, does not deny you your privileges to use the software in the manner
>> I
>> have set out in this thread. But as I have demonstrated, it is possible
>> to
>> run your old virtual machine on newer Macintosh hardware and be licensed
>> to
>> do so, because no such restrictions are in place according to the product
>> documentation.
>>
>> Kind regards.
>>
>>
>> --tonza
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
>> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.virtualpc
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: For those who have Intel-based Macs...
>>
>> <abridged>
>>
>>
>
Sent: 05/22/2008 From: "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> Message:OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation or
reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional within
Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested from where you
find this information.
Thanks, and kind regards,
--tonza
"Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text >I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for the most
>part they remember.
>
> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>
>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows this
>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even complete.
>>> A
>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by
>>> design to
>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of the
>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
>>> license.
>>
>> You're wasting your time.
>>
>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even know
>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than what
>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>
>> Helpful Harry
>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
>
Sent: 05/22/2008 From: "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> Message:Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or reference
that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional prepared by Virtual
PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC, I'll stop using the product.
I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my resources at
this end.
Kind regards,
--tonza
"Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation or
> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional within
> Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested from where
> you find this information.
>
> Thanks, and kind regards,
>
> --tonza
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for the most
>>part they remember.
>>
>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows
>>>> this
>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even complete.
>>>> A
>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by
>>>> design to
>>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of
>>>> the
>>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
>>>> license.
>>>
>>> You're wasting your time.
>>>
>>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even know
>>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than what
>>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>>
>>> Helpful Harry
>>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships
>>> ;o)
>>
>
>
Sent: 05/23/2008 From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> Message:You can't even read. I started my reply with the source. VPC7 for Mac.
The section I quoted governs the license that comes bundled with the
product.
If you are going to do what you want anyway, then just do whatever it is.
But don't expect affirmation from the old hands in this ng. We just aren't
going to tell you that being out of compliance with a license is OK. We
aren't going to argue the license either because our opinions don't matter
any more than yours concerning licensing. You can't argue licensing in a
newsgroup. All you can do is consult your local MS office for an official
opinion.
We don't need to discuss this further. You need to seek an official opinion
from your local MS office.
"Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > So this is your EULA for what Product? The Windows operating system, or
> for Virtual PC itself?
>
> If it is for your Windows operating system, then my license does not have
> that specification (I posted mine earlier)... so my license is apparently
> different to yours!
>
> If this is for Virtual PC for Mac itself (I doubt it, otherwise the text
> below wouldn't make any sense), then I would like to know how on Earth
> anyone is going to be able to run the Macintosh version of Virtual PC on
> an Intel-based Mac!
>
> From what Virtual PC package did your EULA documentation come in?
>
> Thanks for the enlightenment, but I think we need to discuss this further.
>
> --tonza
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> From the EULA for VPC for Mac:
>>
>> "Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, and run one
>> (1) copy of the
>> Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal, or other
>> device
>> ("Workstation Computer") on which you have also installed (and which is
>> compatible
>> with and capable of directly executing) any version of the software
>> product distributed
>> by Microsoft Corporation and known as Virtual PC for Mac ("VPC Mac"),
>> solely for use
>> as a "guest" operating system running in conjunction with VPC Mac."
>>
>> Notice the "running in conjunction with VPC Mac". VPC 2007 is not VPC
>> Mac.
>>
>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:48355459$0$30466$(email address - cut out)...
>>> Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
>>>
>>> What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or reference
>>> that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional prepared by
>>> Virtual PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC, I'll stop using the
>>> product.
>>>
>>> I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my resources at
>>> this end.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> --tonza
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
>>>> OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation or
>>>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>> within Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested
>>>> from where you find this information.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, and kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> --tonza
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for the
>>>>>most part they remember.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>>>>>> "Colin
>>>>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even
>>>>>>> complete. A
>>>>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by
>>>>>>> design to
>>>>>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
>>>>>>> license.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're wasting your time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>>>>>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>>>>>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helpful Harry
>>>>>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships
>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Sent: 05/23/2008 From: "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> Message:So this is your EULA for what Product? The Windows operating system, or for
Virtual PC itself?
If it is for your Windows operating system, then my license does not have
that specification (I posted mine earlier)... so my license is apparently
different to yours!
If this is for Virtual PC for Mac itself (I doubt it, otherwise the text
below wouldn't make any sense), then I would like to know how on Earth
anyone is going to be able to run the Macintosh version of Virtual PC on an
Intel-based Mac!
From what Virtual PC package did your EULA documentation come in?
Thanks for the enlightenment, but I think we need to discuss this further.
--tonza
"Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > From the EULA for VPC for Mac:
>
> "Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, and run one
> (1) copy of the
> Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal, or other
> device
> ("Workstation Computer") on which you have also installed (and which is
> compatible
> with and capable of directly executing) any version of the software
> product distributed
> by Microsoft Corporation and known as Virtual PC for Mac ("VPC Mac"),
> solely for use
> as a "guest" operating system running in conjunction with VPC Mac."
>
> Notice the "running in conjunction with VPC Mac". VPC 2007 is not VPC
> Mac.
>
> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:48355459$0$30466$(email address - cut out)...
>> Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
>>
>> What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or reference
>> that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional prepared by
>> Virtual PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC, I'll stop using the
>> product.
>>
>> I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my resources at
>> this end.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> --tonza
>>
>>
>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
>>> OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation or
>>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional within
>>> Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested from where
>>> you find this information.
>>>
>>> Thanks, and kind regards,
>>>
>>> --tonza
>>>
>>>
>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for the
>>>>most part they remember.
>>>>
>>>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>>>>> "Colin
>>>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
>>>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even
>>>>>> complete. A
>>>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by
>>>>>> design to
>>>>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
>>>>>> license.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're wasting your time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even
>>>>> know
>>>>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>>>>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>>>>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than
>>>>> what
>>>>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>>>>
>>>>> Helpful Harry
>>>>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Sent: 05/24/2008 From: Helpful Harry <(email address - cut out)> Message:In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Tony Kavadias"
<(email address - cut out)> wrote:
The officially Microsoft bundled version of Windows with "Virtual PC
Window XP" (for example) is ONLY for use with Virtual PC, the Mac
version. It's no different to the version of Windows that comes bundled
with a new PC or the version of MacOS that comes bundled with new Macs.
Some shops did do their own bundled packs where you got "Virtual PC (no
Windows OS)" and a separate retail copy of Windows - this one you can
use with any real computer or emulator / vistualisation software.
It's easy to tell the difference. The "Virtual PC only" version comes
in the same box, whereas the full license retail version will come in a
separate box or be a CD taped / vaccuum-packed to the front of the
Virtual PC box.
It's probably possible using a PowerPC emulator like SheepShaver and an
older version of Virtual PC, but would be extremely slow.
Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
Show quoted text > So this is your EULA for what Product? The Windows operating system, or for
> Virtual PC itself?
>
> If it is for your Windows operating system, then my license does not have
> that specification (I posted mine earlier)... so my license is apparently
> different to yours!
> If this is for Virtual PC for Mac itself (I doubt it, otherwise the text
> below wouldn't make any sense), then I would like to know how on Earth
> anyone is going to be able to run the Macintosh version of Virtual PC on an
> Intel-based Mac!
Sent: 05/24/2008 From: Tony Kavadias Message:Actually, I can read. It's just that you didn't actually issue from
what license
the text was quoted from and wouldn't care to elaborate. From where
did the license
text came from? A document that was provided along your instruction
manuals in the
Virtual PC for Mac product packaging? Or was it in electronic form
from within the
Windows XP [Professional] product installer? Which product box set do
you have? Was
it an upgrade?
All in an effort to determine how it is that you have such
documentation stating your
restriction to use the software and not me!!!
You provided none of these details, so your lack of useful information
in response
to my request does not constitute my inability to read.
Well, OK, I'll consult someone from Microsoft on the matter then.
Sorry I annoyed
you over an issue which you are so adamant about, yet can't be bothered
to assist with.
-- tonza
On 2008-05-24 11:38:29 +1000, "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> said:
Show quoted text > You can't even read. I started my reply with the source. VPC7 for
> Mac. The section I quoted governs the license that comes bundled with
> the product.
>
> If you are going to do what you want anyway, then just do whatever it
> is. But don't expect affirmation from the old hands in this ng. We
> just aren't going to tell you that being out of compliance with a
> license is OK. We aren't going to argue the license either because our
> opinions don't matter any more than yours concerning licensing. You
> can't argue licensing in a newsgroup. All you can do is consult your
> local MS office for an official opinion.
>
> We don't need to discuss this further. You need to seek an official
> opinion from your local MS office.
>
> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> So this is your EULA for what Product? The Windows operating system,
>> or for Virtual PC itself?
>>
>> If it is for your Windows operating system, then my license does not
>> have that specification (I posted mine earlier)... so my license is
>> apparently different to yours!
>>
>> If this is for Virtual PC for Mac itself (I doubt it, otherwise the
>> text below wouldn't make any sense), then I would like to know how on
>> Earth anyone is going to be able to run the Macintosh version of
>> Virtual PC on an Intel-based Mac!
>>
>> From what Virtual PC package did your EULA documentation come in?
>>
>> Thanks for the enlightenment, but I think we need to discuss this further.
>>
>> --tonza
>>
>>
>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> From the EULA for VPC for Mac:
>>>
>>> "Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, and run
>>> one (1) copy of the
>>> Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal, or other device
>>> ("Workstation Computer") on which you have also installed (and which is
>>> compatible
>>> with and capable of directly executing) any version of the software
>>> product distributed
>>> by Microsoft Corporation and known as Virtual PC for Mac ("VPC Mac"),
>>> solely for use
>>> as a "guest" operating system running in conjunction with VPC Mac."
>>>
>>> Notice the "running in conjunction with VPC Mac". VPC 2007 is not VPC Mac.
>>>
>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:48355459$0$30466$(email address - cut out)...
>>>> Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
>>>>
>>>> What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or
>>>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>> prepared by Virtual PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC, I'll
>>>> stop using the product.
>>>>
>>>> I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my resources
>>>> at this end.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> --tonza
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>> news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
>>>>> OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation or
>>>>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>>> within Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested
>>>>> from where you find this information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, and kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>> I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for the
>>>>>> most part they remember.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>, "Colin
>>>>>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of Windows this
>>>>>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy of
>>>>>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even complete. A
>>>>>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by design to
>>>>>>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use of the
>>>>>>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its license.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're wasting your time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even know
>>>>>>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>>>>>>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>>>>>>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than what
>>>>>>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Helpful Harry
>>>>>>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
Sent: 05/25/2008 From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> Message:http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/
In the drop downs select:
"Virtual PC for Mac with Windows XP Home"
"7.0"
"English"
Click on GO
Then click on the link for "Virtual PC for MAC with Windows XP
Home_7.0_English.pdf"
"Tony Kavadias" wrote in message
news:4837a969$0$13948$(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > Actually, I can read. It's just that you didn't actually issue from what
> license
> the text was quoted from and wouldn't care to elaborate. From where did
> the license
> text came from? A document that was provided along your instruction
> manuals in the
> Virtual PC for Mac product packaging? Or was it in electronic form from
> within the
> Windows XP [Professional] product installer? Which product box set do you
> have? Was
> it an upgrade?
>
> All in an effort to determine how it is that you have such documentation
> stating your
> restriction to use the software and not me!!!
>
> You provided none of these details, so your lack of useful information in
> response
> to my request does not constitute my inability to read.
>
> Well, OK, I'll consult someone from Microsoft on the matter then. Sorry I
> annoyed
> you over an issue which you are so adamant about, yet can't be bothered to
> assist with.
>
> -- tonza
>
>
> On 2008-05-24 11:38:29 +1000, "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
> said:
>
>> You can't even read. I started my reply with the source. VPC7 for Mac.
>> The section I quoted governs the license that comes bundled with the
>> product.
>>
>> If you are going to do what you want anyway, then just do whatever it is.
>> But don't expect affirmation from the old hands in this ng. We just
>> aren't going to tell you that being out of compliance with a license is
>> OK. We aren't going to argue the license either because our opinions
>> don't matter any more than yours concerning licensing. You can't argue
>> licensing in a newsgroup. All you can do is consult your local MS office
>> for an official opinion.
>>
>> We don't need to discuss this further. You need to seek an official
>> opinion from your local MS office.
>>
>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> So this is your EULA for what Product? The Windows operating system, or
>>> for Virtual PC itself?
>>>
>>> If it is for your Windows operating system, then my license does not
>>> have that specification (I posted mine earlier)... so my license is
>>> apparently different to yours!
>>>
>>> If this is for Virtual PC for Mac itself (I doubt it, otherwise the text
>>> below wouldn't make any sense), then I would like to know how on Earth
>>> anyone is going to be able to run the Macintosh version of Virtual PC on
>>> an Intel-based Mac!
>>>
>>> From what Virtual PC package did your EULA documentation come in?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the enlightenment, but I think we need to discuss this
>>> further.
>>>
>>> --tonza
>>>
>>>
>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>> From the EULA for VPC for Mac:
>>>>
>>>> "Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, and run
>>>> one (1) copy of the
>>>> Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal, or other
>>>> device
>>>> ("Workstation Computer") on which you have also installed (and which is
>>>> compatible
>>>> with and capable of directly executing) any version of the software
>>>> product distributed
>>>> by Microsoft Corporation and known as Virtual PC for Mac ("VPC Mac"),
>>>> solely for use
>>>> as a "guest" operating system running in conjunction with VPC Mac."
>>>>
>>>> Notice the "running in conjunction with VPC Mac". VPC 2007 is not VPC
>>>> Mac.
>>>>
>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>> news:48355459$0$30466$(email address - cut out)...
>>>>> Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
>>>>>
>>>>> What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or
>>>>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>>> prepared by Virtual PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC, I'll
>>>>> stop using the product.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my resources
>>>>> at this end.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>> OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation
>>>>>> or reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>>>> within Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested
>>>>>> from where you find this information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, and kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>> I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for
>>>>>>> the most part they remember.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>>>>>>>> "Colin
>>>>>>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of
>>>>>>>>> Windows this
>>>>>>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even
>>>>>>>>> complete. A
>>>>>>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by
>>>>>>>>> design to
>>>>>>>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS. Use
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with its
>>>>>>>>> license.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're wasting your time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or even
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>>>>>>>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>>>>>>>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather than
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Helpful Harry
>>>>>>>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork
>>>>>>>> hardships ;o)
>
>
Sent: 05/25/2008 From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> Message:Yes.
"Fred Horvat" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
Show quoted text > Nifty
>
> First line of the PDF states "(For Use Solely in Conjunction with
> Microsoft
> Virtual PC for Mac)"
>
> Pretty much wraps up the discussion.
>
>
> On 5/25/08 8:11 PM, in article
> (email address - cut out), "Colin Barnhorst"
> <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/
>>
>> In the drop downs select:
>>
>> "Virtual PC for Mac with Windows XP Home"
>> "7.0"
>> "English"
>> Click on GO
>> Then click on the link for "Virtual PC for MAC with Windows XP
>> Home_7.0_English.pdf"
>>
>> "Tony Kavadias" wrote in message
>> news:4837a969$0$13948$(email address - cut out)...
>>> Actually, I can read. It's just that you didn't actually issue from
>>> what
>>> license
>>> the text was quoted from and wouldn't care to elaborate. From where did
>>> the license
>>> text came from? A document that was provided along your instruction
>>> manuals in the
>>> Virtual PC for Mac product packaging? Or was it in electronic form from
>>> within the
>>> Windows XP [Professional] product installer? Which product box set do
>>> you
>>> have? Was
>>> it an upgrade?
>>>
>>> All in an effort to determine how it is that you have such documentation
>>> stating your
>>> restriction to use the software and not me!!!
>>>
>>> You provided none of these details, so your lack of useful information
>>> in
>>> response
>>> to my request does not constitute my inability to read.
>>>
>>> Well, OK, I'll consult someone from Microsoft on the matter then. Sorry
>>> I
>>> annoyed
>>> you over an issue which you are so adamant about, yet can't be bothered
>>> to
>>> assist with.
>>>
>>> -- tonza
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2008-05-24 11:38:29 +1000, "Colin Barnhorst"
>>> <(email address - cut out)>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> You can't even read. I started my reply with the source. VPC7 for
>>>> Mac.
>>>> The section I quoted governs the license that comes bundled with the
>>>> product.
>>>>
>>>> If you are going to do what you want anyway, then just do whatever it
>>>> is.
>>>> But don't expect affirmation from the old hands in this ng. We just
>>>> aren't going to tell you that being out of compliance with a license is
>>>> OK. We aren't going to argue the license either because our opinions
>>>> don't matter any more than yours concerning licensing. You can't argue
>>>> licensing in a newsgroup. All you can do is consult your local MS
>>>> office
>>>> for an official opinion.
>>>>
>>>> We don't need to discuss this further. You need to seek an official
>>>> opinion from your local MS office.
>>>>
>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>> So this is your EULA for what Product? The Windows operating system,
>>>>> or
>>>>> for Virtual PC itself?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is for your Windows operating system, then my license does not
>>>>> have that specification (I posted mine earlier)... so my license is
>>>>> apparently different to yours!
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is for Virtual PC for Mac itself (I doubt it, otherwise the
>>>>> text
>>>>> below wouldn't make any sense), then I would like to know how on Earth
>>>>> anyone is going to be able to run the Macintosh version of Virtual PC
>>>>> on
>>>>> an Intel-based Mac!
>>>>>
>>>>> From what Virtual PC package did your EULA documentation come in?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the enlightenment, but I think we need to discuss this
>>>>> further.
>>>>>
>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>> From the EULA for VPC for Mac:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, and run
>>>>>> one (1) copy of the
>>>>>> Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal, or
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> device
>>>>>> ("Workstation Computer") on which you have also installed (and which
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> compatible
>>>>>> with and capable of directly executing) any version of the software
>>>>>> product distributed
>>>>>> by Microsoft Corporation and known as Virtual PC for Mac ("VPC Mac"),
>>>>>> solely for use
>>>>>> as a "guest" operating system running in conjunction with VPC Mac."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Notice the "running in conjunction with VPC Mac". VPC 2007 is not
>>>>>> VPC
>>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:48355459$0$30466$(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>> Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or
>>>>>>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>>>>> prepared by Virtual PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC,
>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>> stop using the product.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my
>>>>>>> resources
>>>>>>> at this end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>> OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any
>>>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>>>> or reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP
>>>>>>>> Professional
>>>>>>>> within Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be
>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>> from where you find this information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, and kind regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>>> I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for
>>>>>>>>> the most part they remember.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>>>>>>>>>> "Colin
>>>>>>>>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of
>>>>>>>>>>> Windows this
>>>>>>>>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The
>>>>>>>>>>> copy
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even
>>>>>>>>>>> complete. A
>>>>>>>>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> design to
>>>>>>>>>>> prevent just this. Connectix did this at the request of MS.
>>>>>>>>>>> Use
>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> bundled Windows without VPC for Mac is out of compliance with
>>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>>> license.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're wasting your time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Far too many people don't even bother reading the license (or
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> there is one) so think they actually own the product and can do
>>>>>>>>>> whatever they want. Then there are some who actually do read the
>>>>>>>>>> license, but twist the legalese to fit what THEY want, rather
>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> it really says, and so still do whatever they want. :o\
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Helpful Harry
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork
>>>>>>>>>> hardships ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Sent: 05/25/2008 From: Fred Horvat <(email address - cut out)> Message:Nifty
First line of the PDF states "(For Use Solely in Conjunction with Microsoft
Virtual PC for Mac)"
Pretty much wraps up the discussion.
On 5/25/08 8:11 PM, in article
(email address - cut out), "Colin Barnhorst"
<(email address - cut out)> wrote:
Show quoted text > http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/
>
> In the drop downs select:
>
> "Virtual PC for Mac with Windows XP Home"
> "7.0"
> "English"
> Click on GO
> Then click on the link for "Virtual PC for MAC with Windows XP
> Home_7.0_English.pdf"
>
> "Tony Kavadias" wrote in message
> news:4837a969$0$13948$(email address - cut out)...
>> Actually, I can read. It's just that you didn't actually issue from what
>> license
>> the text was quoted from and wouldn't care to elaborate. From where did
>> the license
>> text came from? A document that was provided along your instruction
>> manuals in the
>> Virtual PC for Mac product packaging? Or was it in electronic form from
>> within the
>> Windows XP [Professional] product installer? Which product box set do you
>> have? Was
>> it an upgrade?
>>
>> All in an effort to determine how it is that you have such documentation
>> stating your
>> restriction to use the software and not me!!!
>>
>> You provided none of these details, so your lack of useful information in
>> response
>> to my request does not constitute my inability to read.
>>
>> Well, OK, I'll consult someone from Microsoft on the matter then. Sorry I
>> annoyed
>> you over an issue which you are so adamant about, yet can't be bothered to
>> assist with.
>>
>> -- tonza
>>
>>
>> On 2008-05-24 11:38:29 +1000, "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
>> said:
>>
>>> You can't even read. I started my reply with the source. VPC7 for Mac.
>>> The section I quoted governs the license that comes bundled with the
>>> product.
>>>
>>> If you are going to do what you want anyway, then just do whatever it is.
>>> But don't expect affirmation from the old hands in this ng. We just
>>> aren't going to tell you that being out of compliance with a license is
>>> OK. We aren't going to argue the license either because our opinions
>>> don't matter any more than yours concerning licensing. You can't argue
>>> licensing in a newsgroup. All you can do is consult your local MS office
>>> for an official opinion.
>>>
>>> We don't need to discuss this further. You need to seek an official
>>> opinion from your local MS office.
>>>
>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>> So this is your EULA for what Product? The Windows operating system, or
>>>> for Virtual PC itself?
>>>>
>>>> If it is for your Windows operating system, then my license does not
>>>> have that specification (I posted mine earlier)... so my license is
>>>> apparently different to yours!
>>>>
>>>> If this is for Virtual PC for Mac itself (I doubt it, otherwise the text
>>>> below wouldn't make any sense), then I would like to know how on Earth
>>>> anyone is going to be able to run the Macintosh version of Virtual PC on
>>>> an Intel-based Mac!
>>>>
>>>> From what Virtual PC package did your EULA documentation come in?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the enlightenment, but I think we need to discuss this
>>>> further.
>>>>
>>>> --tonza
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>> From the EULA for VPC for Mac:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Installation and Use. You may install, use, access, display, and run
>>>>> one (1) copy of the
>>>>> Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal, or other
>>>>> device
>>>>> ("Workstation Computer") on which you have also installed (and which is
>>>>> compatible
>>>>> with and capable of directly executing) any version of the software
>>>>> product distributed
>>>>> by Microsoft Corporation and known as Virtual PC for Mac ("VPC Mac"),
>>>>> solely for use
>>>>> as a "guest" operating system running in conjunction with VPC Mac."
>>>>>
>>>>> Notice the "running in conjunction with VPC Mac". VPC 2007 is not VPC
>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:48355459$0$30466$(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>> Oh, darn! Wrote that rather incorrectly!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I mean to say is, of you can find me any documentation or
>>>>>> reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>>>> prepared by Virtual PC for Mac in another version of Virtual PC, I'll
>>>>>> stop using the product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll leave it to over to you, since I have exhausted all my resources
>>>>>> at this end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tony Kavadias" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:48355337$0$30463$(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>> OK Colin, I'll do this for you: if you can find me any documentation
>>>>>>> or reference that suggests that I cannot run Windows XP Professional
>>>>>>> within Virtual PC 7 for Mac, I'll stop. I myself will be interested
>>>>>>> from where you find this information.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, and kind regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --tonza
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>> I know, but our replies are read by others besides the OP and for
>>>>>>>> the most part they remember.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Helpful Harry" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>>>>>>> In article <(email address - cut out)>,
>>>>>>>>> "Colin
>>>>>>>>> Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are way off base here. If you provide your own copy of
>>>>>>>>>> Windows this
>>>>>>>>>> discussion is irrelevant as long as it is a retail copy. The copy
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> Windows bundled with VPC for Mac is not retail and isn't even
>>>>>>>>>> complete. A
>>>>>>>>>> number of files needed for installation on hardware are missing by
>>>>>&
|