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Add Solution

Windows 98 and sata

Source: microsoft.public.virtualpc
Sent: 03/08/2008
From: andrewjay100
Message:

Going to install Windows 98 se under vista on one machine and XP on another.
Both machines have sata only motherboards/hard drives/dvd. (Dell inspiron)
Will this fail because there are no Windows 98 drivers for these things?

Only need it to work enough to run one old accounts program.

Also am I right in thinking that if the printer has no Windows 98 drivers
you won't be able to use it?

thanks

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Related Messages

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/08/2008
From: Robert Comer <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

>Going to install Windows 98 se under vista on one machine and XP on another.

No problem the Virtual PC emulates hardware than Win98 knows about.

Maybe, maybe not. The printer may be able to work with a driver of an
older printer. (just not with all the features.)

Using a HP Deskjet 500 driver on an HP970cxi would work, but you'd
only get black and white and low resolution, as an example...

--
Bob Comer <Microsoft MVP Windows - Virtual Machine>

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 05:55:00 -0800, andrewjay100
<(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Show quoted text

>Both machines have sata only motherboards/hard drives/dvd. (Dell inspiron)
>Will this fail because there are no Windows 98 drivers for these things?
>Also am I right in thinking that if the printer has no Windows 98 drivers
>you won't be able to use it?
>Going to install Windows 98 se under vista on one machine and XP on another.
>Both machines have sata only motherboards/hard drives/dvd. (Dell inspiron)
>Will this fail because there are no Windows 98 drivers for these things?
>
>Only need it to work enough to run one old accounts program.
>
>Also am I right in thinking that if the printer has no Windows 98 drivers
>you won't be able to use it?
>
>thanks

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/08/2008
From: "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

"andrewjay100" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

All of the host's hardware (with the exception of the CPU and RAM) is
virtualised. In the case of virtual hard disks, they are simply large
files... The host's actual hardware is, to all intents and purposes,
irrelevant...

The key to this (and to almost every other question to do with VPC) is to
remember that virtual machines are *exactly the same* as physical machines
as far as the software installed on them is concerned... Windows 98 will
have not the slightest idea that it's running on a virtual machine, because
it has no need whatsoever to know that...

If you installed Windows 98 on a physical machine and connected your printer
to it, could you use it...? The answer is the same with a virtual machine...

--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Show quoted text

> Will this fail because there are no Windows 98 drivers for these things?
> Also am I right in thinking that if the printer has no Windows 98 drivers
> you won't be able to use it?

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/09/2008
From: "Colin Barnhorst" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

It is one thing for Virtual Server, the application, to detect that it is
attempting to run in a virtualized environment and another thing for a
virtual machine operating system, like Win98, to tell. Not the same thing.

"Jim Kay" <(email address - cut out)am> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

>I wish this was true, but it is not entirely true. Some software in a
>virtual machine can tell it's running in a virtual machine and not a real
>machine.
>
> When I created a Windows Server 2008 machine under VPC and installed
> Virtual Server on it, the service would only start and immediately stop.
> It reported that Virtual Server cannot run on a Virtual Machine.
>
> If Virtual Server can tell, so can other software--so be careful about
> that.
>
> Jim Kay
>
> "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>> "andrewjay100" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>
>>> Will this fail because there are no Windows 98 drivers for these things?
>>
>> All of the host's hardware (with the exception of the CPU and RAM) is
>> virtualised. In the case of virtual hard disks, they are simply large
>> files... The host's actual hardware is, to all intents and purposes,
>> irrelevant...
>>
>>> Also am I right in thinking that if the printer has no Windows 98
>>> drivers
>>> you won't be able to use it?
>>
>> The key to this (and to almost every other question to do with VPC) is to
>> remember that virtual machines are *exactly the same* as physical
>> machines as far as the software installed on them is concerned... Windows
>> 98 will have not the slightest idea that it's running on a virtual
>> machine, because it has no need whatsoever to know that...
>>
>> If you installed Windows 98 on a physical machine and connected your
>> printer to it, could you use it...? The answer is the same with a virtual
>> machine...
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Rae
>> ASP.NET MVP
>> http://www.markrae.net
>

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/09/2008
From: "Jim Kay" <(email address - cut out)am>
Message:

I wish this was true, but it is not entirely true. Some software in a
virtual machine can tell it's running in a virtual machine and not a real
machine.

When I created a Windows Server 2008 machine under VPC and installed Virtual
Server on it, the service would only start and immediately stop. It reported
that Virtual Server cannot run on a Virtual Machine.

If Virtual Server can tell, so can other software--so be careful about that.

Jim Kay

"Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Show quoted text

> "andrewjay100" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
> news:(email address - cut out)...
>
>> Will this fail because there are no Windows 98 drivers for these things?
>
> All of the host's hardware (with the exception of the CPU and RAM) is
> virtualised. In the case of virtual hard disks, they are simply large
> files... The host's actual hardware is, to all intents and purposes,
> irrelevant...
>
>> Also am I right in thinking that if the printer has no Windows 98 drivers
>> you won't be able to use it?
>
> The key to this (and to almost every other question to do with VPC) is to
> remember that virtual machines are *exactly the same* as physical machines
> as far as the software installed on them is concerned... Windows 98 will
> have not the slightest idea that it's running on a virtual machine,
> because it has no need whatsoever to know that...
>
> If you installed Windows 98 on a physical machine and connected your
> printer to it, could you use it...? The answer is the same with a virtual
> machine...
>
>
> --
> Mark Rae
> ASP.NET MVP
> http://www.markrae.net

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/09/2008
From: Robert Comer <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

It's actually fairly easy for a program running in a VM to tell that
it is running in a VM -- it's not a common practice to check though...

--
Bob Comer

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:16:35 -0600, "Colin Barnhorst"
<(email address - cut out)> wrote:

Show quoted text

>It is one thing for Virtual Server, the application, to detect that it is
>attempting to run in a virtualized environment and another thing for a
>virtual machine operating system, like Win98, to tell. Not the same thing.
>
>"Jim Kay" <(email address - cut out)am> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
>>I wish this was true, but it is not entirely true. Some software in a
>>virtual machine can tell it's running in a virtual machine and not a real
>>machine.
>>
>> When I created a Windows Server 2008 machine under VPC and installed
>> Virtual Server on it, the service would only start and immediately stop.
>> It reported that Virtual Server cannot run on a Virtual Machine.
>>
>> If Virtual Server can tell, so can other software--so be careful about
>> that.
>>
>> Jim Kay
>>
>> "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>> "andrewjay100" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>>> news:(email address - cut out)...
>>>
>>>> Will this fail because there are no Windows 98 drivers for these things?
>>>
>>> All of the host's hardware (with the exception of the CPU and RAM) is
>>> virtualised. In the case of virtual hard disks, they are simply large
>>> files... The host's actual hardware is, to all intents and purposes,
>>> irrelevant...
>>>
>>>> Also am I right in thinking that if the printer has no Windows 98
>>>> drivers
>>>> you won't be able to use it?
>>>
>>> The key to this (and to almost every other question to do with VPC) is to
>>> remember that virtual machines are *exactly the same* as physical
>>> machines as far as the software installed on them is concerned... Windows
>>> 98 will have not the slightest idea that it's running on a virtual
>>> machine, because it has no need whatsoever to know that...
>>>
>>> If you installed Windows 98 on a physical machine and connected your
>>> printer to it, could you use it...? The answer is the same with a virtual
>>> machine...
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Rae
>>> ASP.NET MVP
>>> http://www.markrae.net
>>

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/09/2008
From: "Mark Rae [MVP]" <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

"Jim Kay" <(email address - cut out)am> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...

Windows 98 (the subject of this thread) can't...

And, just to re-emphasise, a virtual machine is just as real as a physical
machine - the fact that it's made of software instead of hardware is utterly
irrelevant...

--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Show quoted text

> Some software in a virtual machine can tell it's running in a virtual
> machine and not a real machine.

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/09/2008
From: Bo Berglund <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 17:36:36 -0400, "Jim Kay"
<(email address - cut out)am> wrote:

Yes, it can be done and some software vendors actually do this to
prevent their code from being executed in a virtual environment.
It is not at all straightforward unless you know how to do it of
course. Googling turns up this site where you can learn how to do it.
I have used this information to create a small app thta can detect
where it is running (real/virtual):

http://invisiblethings.org/papers/redpill.html

Bo Berglund

Show quoted text

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/11/2008
From: "Jack" <replyto@it>
Message:

"Bo Berglund" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
news:(email address - cut out)...
<cut>

I have tried it (redpill) on my host--> WniXP PRO and guest. ----> freshly
downloaded vhd (XP + IE8)

response on host:
-----------------
idt base: 0x8003f400
Not in Matrix

response on guest:
-------------------
idt base: 0x8003f400
Not in Matrix

How it knows it is a vm?
Jack

Show quoted text

> I have used this information to create a small app thta can detect
> where it is running (real/virtual):
>
> http://invisiblethings.org/papers/redpill.html
>
>
> Bo Berglund

Re: Windows 98 and sata

Sent: 03/12/2008
From: Bo Berglund <(email address - cut out)>
Message:

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:05:32 -0400, "Jack" <replyto@it> wrote:

The link was really a starter URL. I used this to find additional
information and then I created a program myself to check for the VM.
It works well both in VPC200x and VMWare machines.

Bo Berglund

Show quoted text

>
>"Bo Berglund" <(email address - cut out)> wrote in message
>news:(email address - cut out)...
><cut>
>> I have used this information to create a small app thta can detect
>> where it is running (real/virtual):
>>
>> http://invisiblethings.org/papers/redpill.html
>>
>>
>> Bo Berglund
>
>I have tried it (redpill) on my host--> WniXP PRO and guest. ----> freshly
>downloaded vhd (XP + IE8)
>
>response on host:
>-----------------
>idt base: 0x8003f400
>Not in Matrix
>
>response on guest:
>-------------------
>idt base: 0x8003f400
>Not in Matrix
>
>How it knows it is a vm?
>Jack
>

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